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Discussion Starter #1
Well I'm pleased to announce that I am never going to own another "Government Motors" vehicle again. In the 3 years this outlook in my driveway has been on Earth, its resale value has dropped almost half. I can't get rid of it because I owe more than what it's worth! Screw GM, I can't wait to be in another affordable, dependable, (oh by the way this saturn has been in the shop about 20 times in a year, all for different problems NOT covered by the warranty, almost took advantage of the lemon law) reliable, and overall better FORD. Everybody in my family hates this "car". Very uncomfortable for any rides. Terrible gas mileage (our Freestyle AWD got better mpg and this is FWD!). Weight balance sucks. EVERYTHING is cheap shitty plastic! I still find it funny how Chrysler and GM had to take bailouts... but Ford didn't...

2009 Saturn Outlook XE FWD
Purchased for around 23 grand in April 2011.
Still owe 19 because the economy.
Car is worth about 13-15 if I sell it myself (according to Kelly Blue Book).
 

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Ikreykes,

I'm sorry to hear of your owner experience with your '09. Did you buy it new or slightly used? Whoops, sorry didn't read!!! I see you bought her last year. How many miles have you put on her since April of '11? Can you provide detail of the major issues that you had to pay...not covered by GM's warranty? This forum is a good clearing house of all the Lambda driving experiences. It would help the owners here if you could shed some light on your disappointing experiences. :cheers:

I'm posting a response here just to let you know they are not ALL bad. I will have owned my FWD '09 Saturn 3 years the end of this month. It's an early build (September, '08). I've got over 41K miles on her. The only issue I've had initially, within the first 4 months of ownership, was a "phantom" battery drain which the then dealer was able to trace to the instrument panel (they had to reprogram the dash). They put in a new battery and no issues since. I just remembered I keep a set of jumper cables in the back storage area ;D. My mileage consistently is the factory sticker, 17 or better in the city and 24 or better on the highway. In fact, I've gotten in to the 30's on a full tank (driving at boring 55-60 mph). Mine has the factory trailering package and I pull an open car hauler (weight of trailer and car is right at 4,750 lbs. My mileage towing this setup at 55-60 mph is 15 1/2. I do change the oil on average closer to 3K to 3,500 miles and use Pennzoil Platinum and the AC Delco PF63 filters. I am disappointed about the possibility of a timing chain issue looming it's head but GM has provided me with a letter that extends the warranty on this issue beyond the 5 year/100,000 mile drivetrain.

Again, I'm sorry to hear of your "chasing" your '09. Mine has been tight and right. I knock on wood but she's still a joy to own and drive.

Regards,

Jim
In God We Trust!
 

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I have had my 09 Outlook since Aug 2009, in fact I just put a brand new set of tires on her at 56k miles this morning.

I had the battery drain problem - no biggie really - my 93 SL2 - was always around to jump start the Outlook :) Dealer replaced the battery.

I also had it in because my AC buttons were wearing off right before the 36k bumper to bumper expired, along with bumpy power seat travel.

We have had NO other problems with her yet. I paid 37k for it in Aug 09. Thanks to a few deployments is paid off now as of 15 April 2012. Bought an extended warranty when I purchased the Outlook - I'm covered up to 75k miles.

My gas mileage is VERY similar to COCA - in fact we just moved from OKC to the Seattle area - towed a UHAUL trailer with a 2k load, averaged about 14 MPG, but without the load in OK we normally AVERAGED 21.8 MPG for 2 straight years, ranging from 19MPG up to 27 MPG depending on conditions.

I'm still VERY pleased with our Outlook, and intend to keep it for a VERY long time - I mean heck - I have a 19 yr old SL2 that I still maintain and drive to work every day...

V/r

Wingmn
 

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Values on Saturns have dropped because the brand is no more, but I would have thought that most of that had happened prior to your purchase. I know that I benefited from that drop when I bought mine in June of 2010.

You didn't indicate how many miles on your Outlook, but I grabbed a N. MI. zip (Mackinaw City) and put in 70K miles (high for a 2009) and got $14K-$16K. If you're closer to average mileage, you should be able to get a few K more, but maybe not the $19K you owe.

Unfortunately, I think $23K was high a year ago for a 2009 XE and you're not likely to get it back now. I paid $29,700 for my loaded 2010 XR with 12K almost a year earlier and 2010 XEs with similar mileage were going for the low $20Ks then, at least here in central OH.
 

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lkreykes said:
Well I'm pleased to announce that I am never going to own another "Government Motors" vehicle again. In the 3 years this outlook in my driveway has been on Earth, its resale value has dropped almost half. I can't get rid of it because I owe more than what it's worth! Screw GM, I can't wait to be in another affordable, dependable, (oh by the way this saturn has been in the shop about 20 times in a year, all for different problems NOT covered by the warranty, almost took advantage of the lemon law) reliable, and overall better FORD. Everybody in my family hates this "car". Very uncomfortable for any rides. Terrible gas mileage (our Freestyle AWD got better mpg and this is FWD!). Weight balance sucks. EVERYTHING is cheap shitty plastic! I still find it funny how Chrysler and GM had to take bailouts... but Ford didn't...

2009 Saturn Outlook XE FWD
Purchased for around 23 grand in April 2011.
Still owe 19 because the economy.
Car is worth about 13-15 if I sell it myself (according to Kelly Blue Book).
Didn't you look into any of these things BEFORE purchasing the vehicle??
 

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Discussion Starter #6
salguod said:
You didn't indicate how many miles on your Outlook
almost 100,000 i know unheard of for an 09.

mswerb said:
Didn't you look into any of these things BEFORE purchasing the vehicle??
it was an emergency purchase when we were left stranded in the middle of Tennessee.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
COCOATAN09XR said:
Did you buy it new or slightly used?
it was used with like 60,000 miles on it :p
 

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lkreykes said:
it was used with like 60,000 miles on it :p
So you put 40,000 miles on it in a year, and you're complaining about the sucky resale?

Where the average 2009 Saturn Outlook XE FWD is:

2009 Saturn OUTLOOK-V6
Price Rough Trade-In Average Trade-In CleanTrade-In Clean Retail
Base Price $14,575 $15,900 $16,975 $20,400
Mileage: 52,500 N/A N/A N/A N/A
TOTAL PRICE $14,575 $15,900 $16,975 $20,400

And where the average 2009 Chevrolet Traverse LS FWD is:

2009 Chevrolet Traverse-V6
Price Rough Trade-In Average Trade-In Clean Trade-In Clean Retail
Base Price $15,450 $16,800 $17,900 $21,075
Mileage: 52,500 N/A N/A N/A N/A
TOTAL PRICE $15,450 $16,800 $17,900 $21,075

So owning the Saturn, you do take a minor hit in depreciation (< $1000 difference).
 

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XRDreamliner said:
So owning the Saturn, you do take a minor hit in depreciation (< $1000 difference).
Comparing an Outlook XE with a Traverse LS may be a bit of apples and oranges, I think the Traverse LS is decontented compared to the Outlook XE. For example, the Traverse LS has 17" steel wheels & plastic covers while the Outlook XE still had the same 18" alloys. The Traverse LT1 might be better, but it depends on equipment. That only makes it worse, unfortunately.

But, buying about a year ago, most of the depreciation due to Saturn's demise should have already hit.

Unfortunately, due to the OP's emergency buy I think he paid a premium over what an '09 XE should have been worth a year ago. There's no way to recoup that.
 

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You'll never get that kind trade in cash for either one of those vehicles, or any vehicle for that matter. We just traded in a 2010 Mazda CX-7 that was freaky clean, with only 31,000 miles and only got $14,000 for it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
XRDreamliner said:
So you put 40,000 miles on it in a year, and you're complaining about the sucky resale?
Correction. it had <80,000 miles on it. Either way Saturn sucks.
 

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Buying an '09 a year ago is going to be similar to buying a '10 now. KBB says a '10 XE with 80K is worth $16,400K retail in excellent shape, an '09 with 100K is worth $13,400 retail, $11,100 trade in.

Let's look at my '10 XR. Bought in June of '10 with 12K for $29,700. KBB says it's worth $23,100 retail now with 58K.

I looked at a '10 Traverse TL2, but it had a couple more goodies, same mileage but was $35,000. Had I bought it, it'd be worth $24,900 with 58K.

So, on my Saturn I've lost $6,600 in value, on the Traverse I would have lost $10,100. The $5K difference in price at purchase is only $1,800 now. Yes, Saturn's have lost value because they are no longer being made, but that drop happened fairly quickly after they were shut down in late '09 and long before you bought yours and they haven't dropped any faster than the others since.

Had you not been under pressure and therefore over paid, your depreciation would have only been about $3,000 retail and you wouldn't be upside down now.
 

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I am in a very similar situation, I get 11 MPG (this is accurate I have tracked this for 8 months) and please read all the things that have been replaced on my 2008 Saturn Outlook...and also about the terrible problem with my fuel consumption, I get between 8-14MPG....read on...

I keep a very detailed Excel spreadsheet and track every single repair - since some of these repairs are multiple times! Anything in BOLD are pretty BIG repairs, engine had to be taken out...broken bolts that needed to be retapped in the head gasket...

Items Replaced Since July 2008:
Sensor Camshaft, Cylinder Head Gasket, Dead Battery, Windshield Wiper Motor, Transmission Software Update (after multiple concerns), Airbag Wire Harness, Power Steering Rack & Gear, Front Pads and Rotors (1st time), Gasket for Intake Manifold, Gasket for Rear Valve Cover, Right Front Strut, Both Strut Mounts, Engine Mounts,Front Pads and Rotors (2nd time), Left Front Stabilizer Link, Front Pads and Rotors (3rd Time), Headlight Harness, Airbag Connector Kit, Engine Front Cover Crank Seal, Timing Cover Seal, Broken Bolts in Cylinder Head & Valve Cover, Exhaust Stud, Broken Bolts, Power Steering Pump, Hose & Clamp.


I am also going to try and post an excel chart, so you can see the MPG from Jan - June 2012 (6 months). This is AFTER the Transmission Software update (done in 2009)....no wonder I am going broke on GAS!


Date Odometer TripA Gallons Cost MPG/tank 1g gas
20120131 45811 211 16.76 $66.00 12.6 $3.95
20120202 46022 203 17.01 $65.00 11.9 $4.35
20120205 46225 189 18.01 $67.80 10.5 $4.21
20120210 46414 169 19.01 $85.65 8.9 $3.89
20120215 46583 176 19.02 $52.55 9.3 $3.79
20120222 46759 214 19.71 $67.81 10.9 $3.99
20120227 46973 221 18.42 $78.03 12.0 $4.19
20120229 47194 195 19.32 $74.50 10.1 $4.15
20120305 47389 213 18.69 $70.99 11.4 $4.11
20120312 47602 199 18.42 $75.02 10.8 $3.65
20120317 47801 173 18.74 $50.00 9.2 $4.01
20120319 47974 197 18.15 $69.32 10.9 $4.03
20120324 48171 228 18.67 $75.00 12.2 $3.99
20120331 48399 223 19.13 $76.19 11.7 $3.94
20120402 48622 201 18.51 $55.00 10.9 $4.02
20120407 48823 189 19.71 $60.01 9.6 $4.05
20120411 49012 167 14.85 $65.09 11.2 $3.97
20120415 49179 284 19.51 $44.11 14.6 $3.92
20120417 49463 176 19.51 $62.60 9.0 $3.99
20120423 49639 221 18.11 $74.71 12.2 $4.01
20120425 49860 170 19.13 $60.01 8.9 $4.05
20120507 49573 211 18.51 $85.00 11.4 $4.09
20120514 50112 174 17.21 $68.67 10.1 $3.99
20120514 49789 216 18.11 $72.11 11.9 $3.93
20120520 49790 224 16.76 $65.20 13.4 $3.89
20120524 50014 260 17.51 $61.24 14.8 $3.50
20120529 50286 238 19.71 $76.42 12.1 $3.88
20120604 50524 197 14.85 $55.85 13.3 $3.79
20120610 50721 204 19.51 $75.00 10.5 $3.86
20120616 50925 176 19.51 $75.00 9.0 $3.86
20120622 51101 211 18.11 $65.60 11.7 $3.65
20120630 51312 190 18.67 $74.87 10.2 $4.01
20120707 51479 187 19.24 $71.95 9.7 $3.73

AVERAGES 204.19 18.34 $67.82 11.1 $3.96

GM GAS CONSUMPTION ESTIMATED MPG City 16 Highway 22 AVERAGE 18
KM GAS CONSUMPTION ESTIMATED MPG City 9 Highway 15 AVERAGE 11
Difference of MPG: Advertised vs. Actual - 7MPG

Total Miles Driven with Updated Software - Current Miles 51k
At Software Update 9300 Total Miles 41,700 Driven with software update

Total Gallons of Fuel Required for 41k @ 18MPG - GM 2317 gallons .....Cost of Fuel $8692
Total Gallons of Fuel Required for 41k @ 11MPG - KM 3791 gallons......Cost of Fuel $13761
Difference of 1474 gallons and $5837 in excess fuel!!

On Average, the cost of that update Per month costs me $153 in fuel each month.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
KManzi said:
I get 11 MPG
JEEZ that's bad. :eek:hno: We get like 20 MPG and it's FWD. We had an AWD Ford Freestyle that got like 26 MPG.

KManzi said:
Items Replaced Since July 2008:
Sensor Camshaft, Cylinder Head Gasket, Dead Battery, Windshield Wiper Motor, Transmission Software Update (after multiple concerns), Airbag Wire Harness, Power Steering Rack & Gear, Front Pads and Rotors (1st time), Gasket for Intake Manifold, Gasket for Rear Valve Cover, Right Front Strut, Both Strut Mounts, Engine Mounts,Front Pads and Rotors (2nd time), Left Front Stabilizer Link, Front Pads and Rotors (3rd Time), Headlight Harness, Airbag Connector Kit, Engine Front Cover Crank Seal, Timing Cover Seal, Broken Bolts in Cylinder Head & Valve Cover, Exhaust Stud, Broken Bolts, Power Steering Pump, Hose & Clamp.
Wow. I am extremely sorry to hear all the problems you're having with your Saturn. Out of your list I've also had to replace the Airbag Wire Harness because "SERVICE AIRBAG" showed up on the DIC screen. If I recall correctly it was NOT covered by any warranty and it came out of our pocket. We've also had a spark plug or two crack and it took 3+ trips to the dealer for them to figure that out. And a broken seat belt latch, also not covered... and faulty headlights (not the recall high beam switch thing, something else)... the list goes on. We'd get rid of it if it didn't cost us around 5 grand to. GM and they're stupidity amazes me....

In my opinion GM makes the worst cars ever with the least amount of quality and the maximum amount of plastic.
 

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how did all those bolts break?

out of curiosity---
I know my 2010 Traverse 47,500. (same platform with the updated 3.6 with direct injection)--- is currently at an average of 20 MPG (Onstar APP).
When I was near 41,000 miles- it was 21 MPG via the APP.. (I verified by adding up all my fillups on my logbook).

Roughly- 41,000/21=1952 gallons.
 

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Regarding the broken bolts, I believe they were broken by the dealership, but they were all retapped and fixed.
When I was reading the service notes (because they certainly did not tell this to me on the day I picked it up) I read the service notes saying "broken bolt found in cylinder head" and I assume that was from the first valve gasket seal replacement. I may not even be stating the right parts at this point because this has consumed my life for 2 months.
I had no idea how really bad this all was until I pulled all my records together, gas fill ups (I started that 8 months ago because it was mind boggling) and when I actually looked at how many repairs, line by line inan excel doc, rather than the sheet they give you for oil change , etc...it was a wake up call. My husband would always say what a piece of crap the car was but "you had to have it!".....yes, I did... I loved the Acadia and Outlook, and I would buy another Acadia today....but no way not after GM has said they will not apply my lost fuel consumption to a new vehicle. They would only offer $3k on a certificate towards a new car. So they have now lost me as a consumer. And they lost my husband too (Chevy Avalanche).

BTW, I believe the transmission problems were only on the 2007 and 2008 acadia/outlook/enclave. They got smart after that....I recently drove a brand new acadia as a loaner car when they took my engine out to fix more leaky gaskets. That car drove nice, it was so obvious the transmission was smooth and shifted nicely.

Your lucky you have a newer car, thats great you get good mileage. The dealers service manager was so sarcastic too " have you ever done a real fuel consumption test by checking tire pressure and going on the highway on cruise control?" I said "What do you think I have been doing for 8 month? Onstar sends me my tire pressure, so you can verify that since I have all my emails....I commute 2 days a week on the highway 100 miles roundtrip, the rest is city driving. what more could you want for the perfect fuel economy test? you have winter/spring/summer/highway, city, 87 octane, 91 octane...I mean really!"
 

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when you do those 100 mile trips-- all highway-- what MPG do you get? (only the highway portion). (and how fast do you go)?

By this I mean-
Gas up. Reset DIC parameters- and get on the highway-driving sensibly.
Once you get off the highway- what where the all highway MPGs?

Also- while on the highway-- what are your RPM's at 60.

Could it be possible that youre not going into 5th or 6th gear? meaning engine is revving high.
----------------------------

I ask-- because the best Ive seen- after 120 miles at 55-60 with 2 adults 1 infant was 31.3 MPG. (after 334 miles- I was down to 29.x MPG).
(DIC/Hand calc verified)
 

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Man, I feel for ya with 11 MPG. I'm averaging 17 overall with mine and get 20-22 on the highway. I've got a lead foot compared to RB (8-9 over the posted limit, generally), so I can't match his numbers. Worst I've gotten was 11, but that was 4 bikes on the roof and pulling my camper.

I know, not real encouraging, but yours is way outside the norm, I'd say.
 

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Our 09 XR has 96,600+ and I have changed the coils, the water pump and the tires one time. I am still on the original brakes with about 3/16th pad left as of my check last week. We driven through 16 states with no on the road troubles. Have used synthetic oil from the start and change according to the DIC notification. Happy so far with everything.
 

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Interesting....I averaged around 17 city with nearly 22 highway in the 07 Outlook. Doing pretty much the same with the 11 Enclave, just a tad better.

As for value, when I traded the Outlook in I received over $22,000 against the Enclave back in February 2011. Of course I only had just over 33,600 miles on it then.
 
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