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Discussion Starter #1
My wife and I just purchased an '07 Outlook on April 2nd. It only had ~50k miles on it. Two months to the day after we got it the "stabilitrak off" indicator light came on and the DIC said "service brake system" with the audible "chime" alarm. I checked the brake fluid and noted that there was only about .5 inches in the bottom of the reservoir. I added DOT3 to the fill line and called my dealership to schedule an appointment to get it looked at. I decided to do some research and found some articles (one of which was on this site) about the master cylinder leaking into the brake booster.

I asked the dealership to check the booster pressure sensor but instead they said that I needed pads and rotors the tune of $697.00. That was about 1.5 months ago and I'm still losing brake fluid somewhere. There are no visible leaks and no "burning hydraulic fluid" smell anywhere in/on the vehicle, and the pads appear to have at least half of their thickness left. The vehicle is currently back at the dealership for the same issue and they are still telling me it's the pads and rotors, but that just seems like a lot of brake fluid (in the three plus months I've owned this vehicle, I've gone through almost an entire reservoir of fluid). My questions are:

  • Could this much brake fluid loss be due strictly to bad pads/rotors or could it still be the Master Cylinder/Booster?
  • It seems that there are a lot of posts online about this "Issue", is this something GM is aware of and are there any plans for a Recall?
Also, I checked my warranty on the Saturn owner's site and it said that I have powertrain warranty left until 12/21/12.
 

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I say its the master cylinder booster.. as several have experienced this.
If it was just the pads-- then upon putting new pads back on-- the level would technically rise because the pistons were pushed back in the calipers...
 

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If the pads were worn you will need to add fluid. but once that was done, there is no reason the fluid would go so low again. You have a leak somewhere, and probable into the booster where it's not showing up.
 

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bsisco said:
My questions are:
  • Could this much brake fluid loss be due strictly to bad pads/rotors or could it still be the Master Cylinder/Booster?
  • It seems that there are a lot of posts online about this "Issue", is this something GM is aware of and are there any plans for a Recall?
Also, I checked my warranty on the Saturn owner's site and it said that I have powertrain warranty left until 12/21/12.
No, that much fluid loss points to an internal leak (master cylinder). Unfortunately, the Powertrain warranty will not cover the master cylinder and/or brake booster replacement.

If the dealership is sticking to the story of replacing pads and rotors, I would try another dealership, or an independent service shop, since it is out of B2B warranty. Component prices from www.gmapartshouse.com:

MASTER CYLINDER Outlook

MSRP Core ? Save Online Price
$111.86 $0.00 $39.15 $72.71

BRAKE BOOSTER Outlook

MSRP Core ? Save Online Price
$158.18 $0.00 $55.36 $102.82
 

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Discussion Starter #7
**UPDATE**
So, I talked to the Service Manager last night and he was trying to tell me that it was the pads and rotors..again..however, I finally convinced him to pull the Booster Pressure Sensor and check for fluid and call me back. Well about ~2-3 hours later he calls me back and says "I guess I'm going to have to eat a little crow..." and goes on to tell me how he had a tech pull the sensor out and, lo and behold, there was brake fluid where there shouldn't be any (imagine that). He said that this is the first time in his 20 years that he has ever seen this on any GM vehicle. I told him about the (many) posts on the interwebz regarding this issue and he said he'd definitely be checking this on vehicles with similar symptoms from now on...He also said that they had the parts ordered and should be able to get it fixed today.

I'm hoping that since we've only had this vehicle for ~3 months (not even 3k miles yet, and it was only 2 months when the issue started) that the dealership will cover it if it's not under powertrain warranty :|

On that note about the PT warranty, aren't master cylinders/boosters kind of essential to the operation of the vehicle? shouldn't those be covered? (also, aren't master cylinders a "lubricated part" which would fall under the explanation(s) i've seen for PT warranty?)

TL;DR Got the Dealership Service Manager to check what he should've checked in the first place...turns out I was right all along :banghead:

would appreciate it if someone from GM Service could give me some insight on this.
 

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I dont know if service managers go to some training school...
but if I were one...
Id spend some time on forums--- at least on forums of the vehicles sold in the last 3-5 yrs at his dealership...
to see trends in issues customers are having...
 

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bsisco said:
On that note about the PT warranty, aren't master cylinders/boosters kind of essential to the operation of the vehicle? shouldn't those be covered? (also, aren't master cylinders a "lubricated part" which would fall under the explanation(s) i've seen for PT warranty?)
"Powertrain" relates to engine, transmission/transaxle, transfer case (AWD), rear differntial (AWD), and drive axles. The master cylinder is not part of the vehicle's powertrain, thus it isn't covered.
 

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The Chevrolet powertrain coverage for 2012. It's the same across the lambda line up as far as I know, and nothing different since 2010. Up to 2009 I believe it may have covered more of the fuel system, but never then nor now the power steering system.

The lubricated parts are INTERNAL lubricated parts of the engine, transmission, transfer case, and drive system.


http://www.chevrolet.com/owners/warranty/
 

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Discussion Starter #11
So I went to the dealership last night to pick up our vehicle. I walked in and was talking to my salesman for a bit. He hands me the paperwork and tells me that they (the dealership) are going to stand behind the vehicle and that they replaced the master cylinder and booster as well as gave me new pads and rotors as a 'goodwill' measure for customer satisfaction. I must say that I didn't expect this at all and am very pleased with the service. I expected to have to try and negotiate with them at least a little bit on labor or something. :cheers:
 

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bsisco said:
So I went to the dealership last night to pick up our vehicle. I walked in and was talking to my salesman for a bit. He hands me the paperwork and tells me that they (the dealership) are going to stand behind the vehicle and that they replaced the master cylinder and booster as well as gave me new pads and rotors as a 'goodwill' measure for customer satisfaction. I must say that I didn't expect this at all and am very pleased with the service. I expected to have to try and negotiate with them at least a little bit on labor or something. :cheers:
How are things with the Outlook since you have had it home?

I am glad you were able to get this taken care of at no cost to you. It seems as though the dealership has done right by you.

In regards to the Powertrain Limited warranty, here are the parts that are included;
Gasoline engines, the cylinder block and heads, and all internal parts, intake manifold, timing gears, timing gear chain or belt and cover, flywheel, harmonic balancer, valve covers, oil pan, oil pump, engine mounts, seals, and gaskets, water pump; also turbocharger and supercharger housings and internal parts, valves, seats, and gaskets.

Transmission, the case and all internal parts, torque converter, vacuum modulator, seals and gaskets and transmission mounts, also transfer case and all internal parts, seals and gaskets.

Front Wheel Drive, the final drive housing and all internal parts, axle shafts, constant velocity joints, front hub bearings, seals and gaskets.

Rear Wheel Drive, the axle housing and all internal parts, axle shafts, bearings, supports, seals and gaskets propeller shafts and u-joints.

I hope you have a great weekend.

Michelle, GM Customer Service
 

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I am running into this same problem with our 07 Outlook. It has roughly 70,500 miles on it and the lights and chimes went off on me the other day. I am very nervous about my wife and newborn kid driving in the car until the problem is fixed!

Has anyone on there tackled one themselves? I would like to buy the parts and do it myself....as we cannot afford to get it fixed at the dealership at this point.

Our Outlook has a 3k or 3 month warranty from the dealership that we bought it from and it is about a month expired, however we have not hit the 3k miles yet!

Any feedback would be great!!!!

Thanks, :-\
 

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I'm having this problem, too (also the air bag sensor issue). I really like my Outlook and was planning to upgrade to a new Acadia at the end of this year, but after reading about all the problems with this vehicle I think I'm going to go back to owning a Toyota! My Saturn also had a headlight issue when I first bought it two years ago and that was repaired for free after I received a recall notice. The woman from GM I spoke to about the headlight issue was very helpful and nice, so I was pleased with the customer service. But, the fact that so many of us are having the same issues with the stabilitrak and air bag sensors and GM is doing nothing to remedy the issue...it's unacceptable. I wish I had done research on this car before I bought it. I won't make that mistake again.
 

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was it yesterday- that the news said- toyota has to pay 2 billion dollars to make Toyota owners happy about runaway cars.
and the 1st lawsuit on runaway deaths starts today....

just saying.

Your 2007 is a 1st model rear run... I never buy 1st model year runs...
 

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Azpow said:
I'm having this problem, too (also the air bag sensor issue). I really like my Outlook and was planning to upgrade to a new Acadia at the end of this year, but after reading about all the problems with this vehicle I think I'm going to go back to owning a Toyota! My Saturn also had a headlight issue when I first bought it two years ago and that was repaired for free after I received a recall notice. The woman from GM I spoke to about the headlight issue was very helpful and nice, so I was pleased with the customer service. But, the fact that so many of us are having the same issues with the stabilitrak and air bag sensors and GM is doing nothing to remedy the issue...it's unacceptable. I wish I had done research on this car before I bought it. I won't make that mistake again.
Greetings,

I'm very sorry to hear of the concerns with your stabilitrak and air bag sensors. I understand how displeasing vehicle issues can be, and we appreciate your loyalty to General Motors to an extreme degree. While we are unable to guarantee the outcome you're seeking, we would be more than happy to examine all factors for you. Feel free to message us privately and please include your name, VIN, and actual mileage.

Kind regards,

William R. (assisting Kelly & Jessica)
GM Customer Care
 

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I just wanted to express my gratitude for this thread. I bought my '07 Outlook new and now have 141k miles on it. I still love driving it. There have been hiccups and frustrations at some points, but I can't imagine having another vehicle without equal problems. I replaced the trans around 18K miles ago. Other than this, I think it runs just as well as the day I took her home. My only major complaint would be the tires. Somebody needs to do a stooge thump to the guy who designed the Fortera tires. I finally gave in and tried the Cooper Discoverer CTS. They handle so much better. I paid $830 OTD and qualified for an $80 MIR at the time. I don't know if it's still running, but these were well worth the full price.
 

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This thread helped out a lot. I have a 2008 Outlook that I have had a little over a year and intermittently have had issues with the stabilitrak/check brakes light and chimes coming on since May. Took it in to the dealership and was told it was the rotors and breaks which they took care of. No problems about 5 months and then all of a sudden last week it started happening almost everyday. Guess I'm going back to the dealership but at least I have something I can ask them to check. Wish me luck!
 
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