[09XRFWDOWNER]

Well,

It's been a little over 5 months and 9,000 miles later and no issues (odometer now reads 14,623 miles)...none, zip, nada until early Saturday morning. The '09 was all loaded for a trip north for the long weekend. Got in and turned the key and just 1 click, no crank. Checked to make sure she was in park (didn't try to put her in neutral), she was. Tried again...one click. Noticed that in the run position EVERYTHING ELECTRICAL WAS WORKING (radio, blower [had the a/c on], noticed that the memory seat function was working, dash lights lit up etc... Tried one more time and 1 click...NO CRANK. ***t!! I'll be damned. I decided to jump her. Fired the Vette, hooked up the cables and she immediately fired up. Noticed the battery/ammeter gauge read 13/14...no biggie. Threw the jumper cables in the back and said to **** with it. We're runnin' with what we got. Ran fine for the entire trip. Logged over 623 mile, with numerous stops and starts and NO issues. At the time of the no crank AND after the jump, she's now running, I connected with ONSTAR and they ran diagnostics with everything looking A-OK. In retrospect, they agreed, I probably wiped out the codes, if any, once she started. Not certain on this so I plan on taking her in to my dealer (still showing as a SATURN dealer sign wise) and see if anything shows up. I'm not optimistic as the adage "ya' can't fix what ain't broke" will certainly be the response. We'll see.

It's just maddening to, out of the blue, have this condition. Again, I must have started and stopped 2 dozen times on this trip...all with radio, nav, AC on Auto, windows up and down, power tailgate up and down numerous times, rear and front wipers (hit rain coming back), memory seats and mirrors constantly adjusting (wife's settings different then mine). NO issues on cranking/starting.

The only thing I did last prior to attempting to start on Saturday morning was to load into the nav system my destination (that wasn't in my address book).

Puzzling!

I now keep a set of jumpers in the back...don't leave home without 'em!!!

On a positive note, I pulled over 25 miles to the gallon w/the air on 50% of the time.

Jim
In God We Trust!

Oh, just to provide history on this, here's a link to my original post back in December, '09 of a no start:

http://www.saturnoutlookforum.net/index.php?topic=807.0

Do hope all had a safe Memorial Weekend. It sure was a "kiss in the face" here in Michigan.

 

[rbarrios]

very interesting...
could it have been a dead battery? or low charge?
interesting that it started when you jumped it.
Could be a battery that is beginning to fail.

 

[09XRFWDOWNER]

A trip to my Saturn of Lakeside dealer proved that the battery is OK. They performed a GR8 (don't ask me) load test. The battery passed the test. Like I said I expected the response of can't fix what ain't broke approach. The Service Manager, Peter Salich, thinks that the battery was run down, enabling it to run everything in the vehicle except the power to engage the starter. The question is what caused the run down. He agreed with ONSTAR. Once the vehicle is started, any codes that caused the no start are lost. Peter did note that a battery was replaced after the IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster) was reprogrammed back in December of '09. Since then I have had zip, zilch of an issue with a no start (pretty cold winter here in Michigan too).

All I can do at this point is just be more aware when I shut down, expecially overnight, to be sure and have the obvious accessories actually turned off. Something did reduce the power of the battery. I'll just try and make sure the obvious doors and tailgate are not ajar as well as not having any interior lights left on.

Jim
In God We Trust!

 

[medicrxdoc]

Do you have the backup sensors? Were they alarming when the vehicle was parked before it died? I remember an issue on one of the lambda forums about this happening....don't remember where or what the solution was. Do a search if that was the case.

 

[09XRFWDOWNER]

medicrxdoc,

Yes, I do have those backup sensors. They were not going off (no lights or sounds). I'll do a search on this.

Thanks!

Jim
In God We Trust!

 

[lewisr]

My wife had this happen a year ago. She was at a kids baseball game with radio and wipers on. After game, wouldn't start, had to get a jump. All accessories would work but would not start. Never has happened again.

 

[6Sixathome]

A trip to my Saturn of Lakeside dealer proved that the battery is OK. They performed a GR8 (don't ask me) load test. The battery passed the test. Like I said I expected the response of can't fix what ain't broke approach. The Service Manager, Peter Salich, thinks that the battery was run down, enabling it to run everything in the vehicle except the power to engage the starter. The question is what caused the run down. He agreed with ONSTAR. Once the vehicle is started, any codes that caused the no start are lost. Peter did note that a battery was replaced after the IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster) was reprogrammed back in December of '09. Since then I have had zip, zilch of an issue with a no start (pretty cold winter here in Michigan too).

All I can do at this point is just be more aware when I shut down, expecially overnight, to be sure and have the obvious accessories actually turned off. Something did reduce the power of the battery. I'll just try and make sure the obvious doors and tailgate are not ajar as well as not having any interior lights left on.

Jim
In God We Trust!

I wonder if the NAV in the 09/10 MY take a long time to shut down and maybe it did'nt shut down all the way . Nice MPG Jim :thumb: What is the build date of your OUTLOOK?

 

[09XRFWDOWNER]

Hi Six,

You might be on to something. I'm going to make sure the next time I load a new address, and she's not running, to maybe just start her up and make sure the nav system completes the "searching" before shutting down.

My '09 has a build date of September 23, 2008.

Jim
In God We Trust!

 

[jsimms]

I have read some threads on the AF that some modules "wake up" when the vehicle is off to do a self test. Now I know this would be a pain in the a$$ for anyone to troubleshoot i.e. BCM, TCM etc

 

[09XRFWDOWNER]

??? NO START AGAIN...JUNE 10!! Jumped her (put a battery charger on her for 3-4 minutes using the 50 amp, quick start mode) and she started right up. The exact same 1 click...no crank. Tried it in neutral...samo, samo. Called the dealer and explained I was in on the 1st of June for this exact same issue. The service tech checked the record of this. We discussed at length possible new TSBs related to identifying other parasitic draws. Told him I was bringing it in next week for an oil change and tire rotation and he said he was researching other vehicles having a similar issue and reviewing the fixes. Told him great as this is UNACCEPTABLE. I am not going to live with this issue. I plan on parking myself there next Monday (figuring she'll have approximately 15,000 miles on her by then).

Wife drove all over with at least 4 or 5 stops where she was shut off and then restarted. NO PROBLEM!!

I'm beginning to wonder if the fact that I have a ball hitch installed in the yoke (I've been occasionally towing with her lately) has anything to do with "waking up" the DIC message prompts which may not be shutting off. With the ball in place, I occasionally get a reminder that the "Parking Sensors are Off". Appears it senses when this extension is mounted on the back.

I'll be bringing this thought up when I see the dealer next week.

Still keeping jumper cables in the back.

Just frustrating 'cause it's not predictable.

Stay tuned.

Jim
In God We Trust!

 

[6Sixathome]

This is not good . You say when the ball hitch is in the reciever the DIC knows this, the back up sensors are off and when you start it with the ball hitch in the DIC says "waking up" ? I'm going waaaaaaay out here and have'nt checked mine but is there some sort of micro switch or something in the reciever that the ball hitch makes contact with or do the back-up sensors see an extention past the bumper area? Your right this is unacceptable and I hope what's left of your dealer can figure it out, I know my dealer is mainly Mitubishi now but still doing Saturn business till 10/31/10. I still dont have a "Authorized Saturn Service Dealer" yet, do you?

 

[09XRFWDOWNER]

Six,

Maybe I should clarify. I have been passive when I install the hitch ball; that is, I do not go to the DIC and physically attempt to shut off (don't think the DIC allows you to do this...I'll have to check). The DIC message center just becomes aware of that extension and flashes that message of Park Assist Off. We'll see what the dealer comes up with.

Jim
In God We Trust!

 

[jsimms]

I don't think there is a way to shutdown the Park assist; but I think you're on to something cocoa. Maybe one of the sensors is waking up the system and causing a draw; let us know what comes of it

 

[BigTallV]

On my former '05 Pontiac Montana SV6 you could turn off the parking assist via an overhead console switch. Which was great for when attempting to hookup the trailer... BING BING BING BING, would drive you nuts!

 

[09XRFWDOWNER]

Well,

Took it in yesterday. Explained the issue as I see it (not predictable). Pete Salich, the Service Manager, reviewed my issues, attempting to match up with what has been logged on GM Saturn's internal service site. Found that although I had a reprogram of the Instrument Panel Cluster (IPC) back in December of '09, he shows an update of that software program of the IPC in January of '10. They were able to determine that the IPC upgrade of December was indeed different than the new release in January. So, they performed that upgrade to the IPC. The warranty code shows:

INSTRUMENT CLUSTER REPROGRAMMING WITH SPS...OPCODE: N9633

He did say that this upgrade takes into consideration those types of driving of less than 10 miles at a time, specifically 5-10 mile trips. He said this should reduce the dash wanting to cycle and draw as often as it did because of the shorter trips.

We'll see. I'm still keeping my jumper cables in the back for now...HA!

Anyhoo, had the oil and filter changed (I provided) as well as the tires rotated.

As a sidebar, I've sampled this change and sent it off to Blackstone. This oil is Mobil 1, 5W30 and had approximately 5,000 miles on her. The Oil Life Monitor read 62% at this time. This will be the 2nd analysis, back to back, using Mobil 1 synthetic and a PF48 filter. I've taken the cue of others here and on the Bobstheoilguy website and switched to Pennzoil Platinum full synthetic, 5W30, again using the AC Delco PF48.

My plan, assuming I get some confidence in the startability, is to do one more analysis from this PP, and, presuming an even better record of less wear, then just drive her.

Regards,

Jim
In God We Trust!

 

[rbarrios]

looking forward to the UOA...
im guessing from the UOA with M1 and the 3.6 DI-- that the Iron will be higher than other oils.