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Discussion Starter #1
Sorry for the long story but this is just too unbelievable.
My wife was on errands with the kids in our 2007 Saturn Outlook, which she loves. Well, it just stopped moving. Couldn't put it in forward or reverse. She called a friend to get it towed to his service shop. At the shop, he got it to move a little then it stopped again. He said he recently had an Acadia in which a part in the transmission broke and shredded the gears and got into all the innards. As it cost about $3500 to repair, he suggested that we call GM to see if they can help out with it.
I found a number and spoke with Heather, who was great, calling me back every step of the way. She put me on the line with Denny, the head mechanic for Matthews Auto Group where we bought the vehicle and where we have the Outlook serviced. We spoke of the incident when it stopped working and he said he would get to it in a few days, which I said was OK.
He didn't remember but we spoke before this when the vehicle was brought in for the timing chain recall. It took four times to get it right, but Matthews treated my wife so nice, we felt comfortable with them. So this time we called OnStar and had it towed to Matthews so Denny could look at it. When he called back he said that it was a broken wave plate in the transmission, and in a roundabout way agreed that it may cost about what the other mechanic said, about $3500.
By calling my friend the mechanic for an explanation, he said that the wave plate is cheap $20 part that is known to crack and destroy the transmission. He had called a friend at Country Club Auto who said that he works on an average of 2 GM transmissions per week between Outlook, Acadia, and Traverse.
The Matthews customer service rep called the next day and said that they drained some fluid and found metal shavings. I asked how did the mechanic diagnose the problem as a bad wave plate if he didn't open it up?
The customer service rep said he had an offer from the district supervisor of GM, to give us $3000 off of a new vehicle or split the cost of repair 50/50, approximately $1750 plus tax our cost.
When asked for a breakdown of the cost of services and materials he got uptight and refused, stating only that the transmission would come out of the box and into the vehicle and the fluid would be added. The old transmission would go into the box and sent back to GM. It was then presented as a one time offer, take it or leave it.
I said that I was disappointed in GM for not doing the right thing. This is a known problem with Outlook, Acadia, and Traverse. It's all over the internet.
I went on to say that the tow truck operator for OnStar that picked up the vehicle said, “Oh, an Outlook. Transmission, right? I've been picking up a lot of those lately. And Acadias and Traverses”.
I also said to the rep that we were totally surprised by the breakdown since the last OnStar Diagnostic report that we got stated “Based on our diagnostics check on 08/19/2012, all systems are normal.
Diagnostic: Complete. No action needed.
” Four days later, my wife and kids are stranded on the roadside.
The rep repeated that the offer was a one time offer, one that he did not have to give since the vehicle was five months out of warrantee. If it did not make me happy then he would save the money to make someone else happy. I honestly said that of course I am not happy with having to spend $1800 for a new transmission that only has 73,000 miles on it (27,000 miles under warrantee limit). He seemed to be a little taken aback by my knowledge of the wave plate issue with these transmissions, how a $20 part could self destruct and wreak havoc with the transmissions. Take it or leave it was the answer, that is all the GM district manager was authorized to offer. I would get back to him.
The next day a GM rep named Keith called to offer the same, but more politely. As a lifetime customer of GM vehicles, I repeated my disappointment in GM, but said that I would get back to him. He asked if I would like to file a complaint with GM. I said no, but I would like to file a complaint against the Matthews rep. The next day Keith the GM rep called and asked of my intentions, and I said that I guess that I would take the 50/50. He left off saying that he would get going on making it happen.
The following day I missed a call on the cell phone that I thought was the Matthews customer service guy so I called him. He said, no it wasn't him. I said well, you've got me by the balls (pardon me) so I guess I am taking the 50/50 offer. He replied that it was rescinded. I got off the phone with him and called Keith the GM service guy to ask about it but he was not in. The next day Keith reversed himself and said that indeed the offer was revoked. I asked if there were anyone else that I can speak to. He said he would have his manager call me. The next day a curtly speaking person called to say that they are not willing to budge on their decision.
This is not the customer service that I have come to enjoy and depend on for my family from GM and the Matthews Auto Group. What can be done?
 

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oh man-- this is a hard one...
I have nothing to add that cold help..

except there are some GM customer service reps on here, Acadia, Traverse forum..

Maybe you could contact them and see if this route gets that offer back....
 

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5 months out of warranty and only 73K miles? GM ought to buy you a new trans, it's a known issue and the part in question has been redesigned as a result.
 

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Does anyone on this forum have an Outlook with 100K+ miles that hasn't had a transmission problem?

Serious question... I am wondering if I should just start saving for it now.
 

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2007 XR with 10200 miles.....have had it since 42K miles. No issues yet with transmission but after hearing so many horror stories lately, I'm seriously thinking about trading it in
 

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correction...102000 miles
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for your replies. I got a response from the GM website to which I posted the same story. I was told that they could not help, that I would have to stay with the dealership to seek satisfaction. That has so far gotten me no where.
The OnStar online customer service agent said she could not help because it was not an OnStar problem, but gave me a number to call to speak with an agent over the phone. In some way, OnStar is on my mind in this situation because four days prior to the transmission failure, the Diagnostic Report emailed to me by OnStar gave it a clean bill of health, no issues. I pay for the service so that I would, at the very least, have a forewarning of problems. I don't know what happens to the flow of transmission fluid when the wave plate initially goes bad, but its disintegration clogs the filter and internal components. There was no warning, no 'red lights' recorded on the internal diagnostic computer regarding low fluid pressure.
By the way, in this transmission the only way to access the filter is to take the transmission apart by removing the front end, drive shaft, etc., about 10 hours worth of work and about the same to put it all together again. While your in there at such cost, you might as well replace anything else that may be slightly worn. So 20 hours times a dealerships mechanics fee to replace a $20 faulty wave plate.
Would you be happy?
 

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Her neam is Michelle, the username here is 'GM Customer Service'. Try this link, but you can use the 'MEMBERS' link in the top left to search if it doesn't work.
 

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salguod said:
Her neam is Michelle, the username here is 'GM Customer Service'. Try this link, but you can use the 'MEMBERS' link in the top left to search if it doesn't work.

OutlookDriver said:
rbarrios suggested contacting a GM service rep on this forum (thank you). Does anyone know of one?
Not sure if she is in this weekend but she will get back with you as soon as possible.
 

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OutlookDriver said:
By the way, in this transmission the only way to access the filter is to take the transmission apart by removing the front end, drive shaft, etc., about 10 hours worth of work and about the same to put it all together again. While your in there at such cost, you might as well replace anything else that may be slightly worn. So 20 hours times a dealerships mechanics fee to replace a $20 faulty wave plate.
Is this how they do it? they remove the front end- and im guessing radiator and that stuff- to be able to remove the trans ONLY...? did you see them do this?

Im asking because the way were used to seeing the trans come out-- is when they drop the engine,trans, front suspension as a whole....
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I am by no means knowledgeable in automotive mechanics. I have not seen how it is done. I am passing this on from a private mechanic of excellent repute who has worked on an Acadia with the same transmission. He also has a friend who works for a GM dealership whom he called on our behalf, who spoke of the same involved procedure.
As well, and perhaps more distressing, the customer service rep from the dealership in question told me that the diagnosis was made by observation of metal filings found by draining transmission fluid. When I asked how the head mechanic for the dealership previously diagnosed the issue as a bad wave plate, he steered the conversation to the compensation offer. Again I questioned him, the customer service agent, how his head mechanic knew it was a bad wave plate if now the rep is saying they never took it apart. He replied that it is too much work to break it down, about ten hours of work.
I believe that this is true, that the dealership never took it apart. Now this is pure conjecture I admit, but the first thought that hit me was that they get so many of these cases that they knew just by looking at the type of filings that it was pieces of the wave plate. I cannot think of another reason why they would offer a "new transmission out of the box" sight unseen. (Are new transmissions still available, or did the rep really mean to say rebuilt?)
The head mechanic was one of the reasons we kept going back to this dealership for service. He has always been truthful and respectful to my wife when she brought the vehicle in, making room for her schedule and always offering a loaner vehicle. Even when his staff botched a seal when working on the timing chain recall (three times), my wife felt that she still wanted to go back because she was treated very well there.
I cannot say the same for the treatment I received over the phone from the dealership customer service rep, of all people.
 

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OutlookDriver said:
... (Are new transmissions still available, or did the rep really mean to say rebuilt?) ...
I'd be willing to bet that there aren't any new transmissions available, and never were. I know that Honda dealers don't install new transmissions, only rebuilds, and I believe the same is true of Lexus based on my friend who once worked at a Lexus dealer. In fact, in both cases dealer mechanics aren't permitted, at least for warranty work, to tear down the trannys, only replace them. When my first went out in my Honda Odyssey, it was a sticking solenoid and likely a simple fix without taking the trans apart, but Honda said to replace it.

My mechanic friend said that Lexus wanted to know why every trans failed and that's why they required a replacement and to send the bad one to them.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
At the suggestion of a friend, I contacted a local news station regarding this situation and got a reply from the news director. He mentioned contacting the local branch of the Attorney General's office. I hope it doesn't have to go that direction. He also mentioned contacting someone from the family that owns the dealership. I'll see where it goes.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well, four days later and no reply from the dealership.

However, I have also been chatting with a GM customer service agent on another forum:
Through private email:
"Thank you for taking the time to email me with your concerns. I apologize for your frustrations. I see that the dealer offered to cover 50% of the repairs. That was something the dealer was offering and unfortunately I cannot change the resolution of your case. I apologize for your frustrations and inconvenience."
Christina
GM Customer Service

Reply:
Thank you for looking into it for my family and your apologies too.
So, OK, the dealership has taken back their offer. Does that mean GM is taking back their half too? I would be willing to take up what the dealership has reneged on if GM would cover the other half of the original offer.
Or could I take the vehicle to another GM dealer, who would like my future business, to have them honor Matthews deal?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Why is the wave plate issue not a recall? There are dozens of posts on this forum alone. Visit the Acadia, Traverse, and Enclave forums and you will see many more posts about this issue. Add to that the dozens of forums that I have visited these past weeks which have similar posts. What does it take for a recall to occur? Below is one such post regarding a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) of this very well known problem that cuts across all GM brands:

I just found a bulletin on this issue that sounds exactly like your problem, the trans issue is related to an internal clutch wave plate that breaks. The repair is to take the trans out and apart for repair.

While I realize that this is not good news, it at least verifies that the issue is not computer related so you at least know what you are paying for is indeed necessary.

here is the bulletin info...

TECHNICAL

Bulletin No.: 09-07-30-012A

Date: January 12, 2010

Subject: No Reverse, 3rd or 5th, Check Engine Light Illuminated, DTC P0776 (Replace 3-5 Reverse Clutch Plate (Waved)

Models:
2008-2009 Buick Enclave
2008-2009 Chevrolet Equinox, Malibu
2009 Chevrolet Traverse
2007-2009 GMC Acadia
2007-2009 Pontiac G6
2008-2009 Pontiac Torrent
2007-2009 Saturn AURA, OUTLOOK
2008-2009 Saturn VUE
All Equipped with 6T70/75 6-Speed Automatic Transmission (RPOs MH2, MH4, MH6 or MY9)



Supercede:
This bulletin is being revised to update the information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 09-07-30-012 (Section 07 - Transmission/Transaxle).



Condition

Some customers may comment about an SES light and/or no reverse and may also comment on a slip / flare or harsh shifts in drive range 3rd and/or 5th gear. Upon investigation, the technician may find DTC P0776 (Clutch Pressure Control (PC) Solenoid 2 - Stuck Off) set. Any one of the following codes may set independent of each other as a result of this wave plate breaking: P0777, P2723, P0717, P0716, P2715, P2714.

Cause

This condition may be caused by a broken 35R clutch wave plate allowing the apply piston to over-stroke, causing the piston to leak and causing loss of apply. This normally will not occur before approximately 32,000 km (20,000 mi). Debris generated by the condition can affect the operation of the speed sensors and other clutches.

Correction

Important
It is recommended that a new plate be installed any time the transmission is disassembled for any reason.



Important
The Control Solenoid (w/body and TCM) Valve Assembly should not be washed in a parts cleaner.

Read more: 60 mph, engine reved momentarily then dropped..slowed..20 mph - JustAnswer http://www.justanswer.com/saturn/4d6be-60-mph-engine-reved-momentarily-dropped-slowed-20-mph.html#ixzz2AGnWfWbV
 

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Discussion Starter #17
While speaking with the Attorney Generals Office, I was told that perhaps the transmission issue faced or facing many Outlook, Acadia, Enclave, and Traverse owners may be of interest to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. That is the agency that decides if a safety issue warrants a recall from the manufacturer.
Help us all by looking up the following site and filing a safety complaint and tell your story. If enough of us register our tansmission problems, it may eventually lead to a recall of the transmission from GM:
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
 

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Discussion Starter #19
As with the mentioned politics, this IS[/color] a safety issue. Read through the copious amounts of incidents posted to this forum (and others) involving involuntary shifting and coming out of gear at speed are to name perhaps the most disconcerting safety issues. My wife and kids were lucky to be at low speed coming off a traffic light and stuck by the roadside in town. If the same incident happened outside of our mountainous, often snowy little town in winter, things would have been a bit more troublesome.
 

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:angryfire:My 2008 Saturn Outlook XR AWD, transmission went out on me yesterday . It's going to cost me 5k to get it repair. I had contacted GM about the safety concern on this vehicle and GM turn their back on me. I had also file a complaint thru NHTSA (SAFERCAR.GOV). I hope that with enough Saturn Outlook owner come fourth we could get this going with a class action. I am welling to contact any lawyer out their about the safety concern I have on these vehicle. This is my only vehicle for my family and it is Thanksgiving holiday too. :help:

After calling and emailing GM, this is what GM answer to me for my transmission went out on my 2008 Saturn Outlook XR AWD. I told GM that my vehicle was not safe on the road and had sudden acceleration problem and this is what GM expert have to answer me with. "so my email could be read by GM and their employees and make joke and laugh at it". "No we know your vehicle is not safe on the road but we at GM does not care with happen to you or your love one and anyone else on the road".

"SO GENERAL MOTOR COULD READ IT" :cheers:


-Edited by Global Moderator - The email previously posted here was modified by the poster, therefore can not be trusted for it's content. While we allow people to "rant" we will reserve the right to edit out information that cannot be verifed or displays personal unpublished contact information.
 
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