[cmcolfax]

Good morning!

I have been lurking for a week or so now, reading and researching...

I figured it was time to introduce myself.

My name is Chuck Colfax, I am a Professional Firefighter in Henrico County, VA.

And I am considering buying a pre-owned 2008 OUTLOOK XE FWD.

Unfortunately this will be my second car purchase in six months...

See, I am more of a big tires, big V8 kinda guy... but the reality of $3.50+ gas set in last summer.

So I sold my 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited. Yeah. A 360 from the factory. Only +/- 14,000 of them made. 2.5" OME spings, ProComp MX-6 shocks, MOPAR Performance "kegger" intake and ECU, K&N FIPK II, MSD & Magnacore ignition, 3" cat-back with a 3" Flowmaster 40-Series. 161,000 miles and still fast, strong and loud.

The 5.9 was my DD, and that Magnum 360 LOVES it's 93 octane fuel!

Did I really need to drive a lifted, hot-rodded V8 to run back and for the to the firehouse ten days a month and to take my kids to daycare?

Prolly not.

So I bought a 2011 KIA SOUL+ in August 2011.

In the five months I have had it, I have come to love the little blue Hamster Wagon.

It is a quirky, econo-wagon. But is actually a pretty good “driver’s car” too. Reminds me a little of the early-90's Golf's.

The wife has a 2004 Malibu LS V6 with 80k miles on it that is long since paid for and just got treated to new struts, shocks, brakes, TRE's and tires.

All was well until we found out she was preggo with kid #3.

And we do not have a vehicle that can carry three kids in Child Safety Seats (kid #1 is 3 1/2, kid #2 is almost 2).

Not to mention all the "stuff" that three kids require...

We had explored the Outlook / Acadia several years ago and they were more money than we wanted to spend.

But have kept up with them since we really liked the vehicle.

The OUTLOOK we are looking at is a 2008 XE FWD.
43K miles.
Sunroofs.
Captains chairs
Roofrack.
Dark blue (dunno what the "official" color name is) with the grey cloth interior.

We would prefer the AWD, but this one hits every other point we were looking for at a good price.
Carmax has it for $19,599.

Have read a lot about the timing chain issues.

Any ideas at what mileage they seem to crop up?

I should have the remainder of the factory 5-yr / 100K powertrain warranty.

And don't want to cough up another $1500 for Carmax's extended warranty.

Any other known major issues I should look for?

And yes, as soon as I take possession it will go to a GM dealer and have the VIN run for Recalls and TSB's.

And yes, because of the kind of guy I am I will change all the fluids right away too.

I am not a professional driver, or a certified technician or anything like that, just a guy who LOVES cars and has for as long as I can remember.

(My dad was a “car guy” too…)

I have had a diverse collection of vehicles, and am pretty good at being objective.

I have gone thru a “Muscle Car” stage… One of my first cars was a 78 Camaro with a 305 and a 4-speed. I quickly realized that not all V8’s are equal and that the 305 was a dog. So it was sold and replaced with a 70 Ford Torino GT with a 351 Cleveland. Now THAT was a car…

I have gone thru a “Ricer” stage… Can you say 2nd Gen Eagle Talon TSi (Mitsu Eclipse GS-T) and 3rd Gen Acura Integra GS-R?

And a “Lifted SUV” stage… The 98 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited mentioned previously as well as a 94 XJ on 33's.

As well as multiple “daily driver” type vehicles over the years.

The rest of the current fleet consists of:

1995 Jeep Wrangler. 3.5" springs, 1" shackle, 1" body, 35 x 12.50 Interco TrXus MT's, 4.88's.

1992 F150 2wd. 302. Explorer GT-40 heads, upper and lower intake. Flowtech longtube headers, custom 2.5" Y-pipe, single cat, Thrush welded muffler, NASCAR-style side dump in front of rear axle. F350 front coils, F250 rear leafs, 31 x 10.50 x 15 BFG AT's. Plans include a bigger cam and a MAF-conversion.


-cmc-

 

[ls973800]

And yes, as soon as I take possession it will go to a GM dealer and have the VIN run for Recalls and TSB's.

You would be smart to get the VIN number now, and have it checked here by the Customer Service Rep or someone else who may have access to that info. You might even know someone at a GM dealership locally who can check it for you, or just ask the service manager.

I would not purchase a pre-owned 2008 Lambda (Enclave, Acadia, or Outlook) until after seeing the history of it. Those 2008 models had some first and second year bugs, such as leaking sun roofs, cam sensor problems, cam shafts which had to be shimmed, and more. Now not all of them of course had those problems.

For almost $20000.00, I would do ALL my checking before the purchase, not after! I believe Car Max provides a CarFax with their used cars, correct? If so, I would also pay the $30.00 or so to check Auto Check, or other such reporting companies. Many times, one will have info the other doesn't.

 

[cmcolfax]

And yes, as soon as I take possession it will go to a GM dealer and have the VIN run for Recalls and TSB's.

You would be smart to get the VIN number now, and have it checked here by the Customer Service Rep or someone else who may have access to that info. You might even know someone at a GM dealership locally who can check it for you, or just ask the service manager.

I would not purchase a pre-owned 2008 Lambda (Enclave, Acadia, or Outlook) until after seeing the history of it. Those 2008 models had some first and second year bugs, such as leaking sun roofs, cam sensor problems, cam shafts which had to be shimmed, and more. Now not all of them of course had those problems.

For almost $20000.00, I would do ALL my checking before the purchase, not after! I believe Car Max provides a CarFax with their used cars, correct? If so, I would also pay the $30.00 or so to check Auto Check, or other such reporting companies. Many times, one will have info the other doesn't.

Hmmm... a GM Customer Service Rep on here?

That would check a VIN / Vehicle History?

WOW. Cool.

That is new to me!

How would I get in touch with them?

(And I am a member of a number of vehicle enthusiast forums!)

Yes, Carmax provides an AutoCheck report... and that shows a clean title, etc... but not Recall or TSB issues.

I don't have any connections at GM dealerships, and was under the impression that they couldn't or wouldn't run a VIN unless you were the registered owner.

Thanks!

-cmc-

 

[rbarrios]

yeah- the item that caught my eye was the sunroof... leaks.

get that VIN number- and contact the service rep on here or the acadia/enclave/traverse forum.

You may want to check out the acadia/enclave forum as they also sold 2008 models. theyre practically kissing cousins.

the service reps are on there too.

 

[cmcolfax]

yeah- the item that caught my eye was the sunroof... leaks.

get that VIN number- and contact the service rep on here or the acadia/enclave/traverse forum.

You may want to check out the acadia/enclave forum as they also sold 2008 models. theyre practically kissing cousins.

the service reps are on there too.

I PM'ed the CSR...

Sunroof leaks... same story I have read on countless vehicle forums... including the SOUL when I bought it... drain tubes get clogged or come disconnected, right?

I will be on the lookout for evidence of water intrusion as soon as I can put hands on the car...

(It is enroute from Raleigh to Richmond right now.)

Been nosing around the Acadia forum too... since we have gone back and forthe btwn the two.

Have not registered over there yet though.

Referrence the timing chain issues... is there a mileage point where they seem to crop up?

Lik Honda's and Mitsu's... if you don't change the timing belt on them at 80K you WILL end up broken...

Thanky!

-cmc-

 

[rbarrios]

the problem with the sunroof leak on the Lambdas-- is that theres a little drain hose- that leaks- but it tends to cause water to fall on some electronics in the dash area-- causing electrical gremlins.
those are the pesky ones.

as for chains--- Im not sure theres a set mileage.
Weve seen early mileage and later milage- 100K+ on pre 2009.

 

[cmcolfax]

Swung by Carmax today to look at the OUTLOOK... it came in on the truck from NC yesterday.

Nice color!

Dark metallic blue, interior is light grey.

Anyone know what that would have been called in '08?

Can't get anyone to run the VIN since I am not (yet) the Registered Owner.

Yes, I PM'ed the GM CSR on here and she was very helpful.

But still can't run the VIN thru GMVIS since I don't own the vehicle.

Everything works, no rust or other damage on the undercarriage or exhaust.

Two brand new GY Fortera's on the front.

Rears measure 8/32-9/32 and are obviously the original tires.

(I wouldn't have put the GY's back on it, but am not gonna complain!)

No floormats.

OK, it has a generic, parts-store / Wally-World set... in TAN.

I guess they threw whatever they had in it to say it has floormats.

Found a "Titanium" and a "Black" set on E-Bay... may pick them up, just not sure if the "Titanium" is the right color.

Looking like a Saturday morning delivery...

-cmc-

 

[sailfish]

The light gray interior is the titanium. I have that in my Enclave.

 

[khansen30]

Swung by Carmax today to look at the OUTLOOK... it came in on the truck from NC yesterday.

Nice color!

Dark metallic blue, interior is light grey.

Anyone know what that would have been called in '08?

Can't get anyone to run the VIN since I am not (yet) the Registered Owner.

Yes, I PM'ed the GM CSR on here and she was very helpful.

But still can't run the VIN thru GMVIS since I don't own the vehicle.

Everything works, no rust or other damage on the undercarriage or exhaust.

Two brand new GY Fortera's on the front.

Rears measure 8/32-9/32 and are obviously the original tires.

(I wouldn't have put the GY's back on it, but am not gonna complain!)

No floormats.

OK, it has a generic, parts-store / Wally-World set... in TAN.

I guess they threw whatever they had in it to say it has floormats.

Found a "Titanium" and a "Black" set on E-Bay... may pick them up, just not sure if the "Titanium" is the right color.

Looking like a Saturday morning delivery...

-cmc-

http://service.gm.com/dealerworld/vincards/pdf/vincard08 06-01-09 r1.1.pdf

Click on the link, scroll down to light duty trucks. You can pick the vin codes that match your vehicle to match all the options.

As a side note, posting the same comments and questions in several posts is not going to go to far except to annoy other users. The questions I answered for you in these last to posts came from googling your requests, i.e. "gm vin codes 08" and "saturn outlook 08 model year paint colors".

 

[salguod]

I'd tell CarMax that they ought to contact a local GM Dealer / Saturn Authorized Service Dealer and run the VIN and have it ready to review by Saturday. No repair summary, no deal until there is one.

You want to know if there have been sunroof leaks, all kind of things go bad if there have been and there have been many reports of them not getting fixed well.

 

[ls973800]

I'd tell CarMax that they ought to contact a local GM Dealer / Saturn Authorized Service Dealer and run the VIN and have it ready to review by Saturday. No repair summary, no deal until there is one.

You want to know if there have been sunroof leaks, all kind of things go bad if there have been and there have been many reports of them not getting fixed well.

I second that!

The fact the rear tires are still original and the fronts have been replaced would indicate to me that they were never rotated and wore out. What other maintenance items might have been overlooked?

There was one owner on the Enclave board who bought a used Enclave from a dealer late last year. It had two new tires up front. Within 4000 miles those tires had to be replaced because of irregular wear. The front end was found to be out of alignment, even though it gave no indication to him as such.

I would find a way to have that VIN run through GM one way or another before signing anything.

I wish you luck with whatever you do, and will say welcome to the boards!

 

[lkreykes]

No floormats.

When we bought our Outlook it did not come with floormats either, not even aftermarket ones!

 

[salguod]

And I'd have them put the new tires on the rear, not the front. Having the worn tires on the rear increases the likelihood of a spin out in slippery conditions. Brake hard and turn, the rear gets light, the good tires up front bite and the bad tires in the rear loose grip and your back end passes you.

Most tire stores won't put a pair of new tires on the front anymore.

 

[cmcolfax]

KHANSEN - And smart ass posts from moderators are not going to make new members want to stay around.
Especially new members who have been around the block more than a few times.
Active members of multiple automotive forums for over ten years.
Oh, and I do know how to use Google too! I'm just sayin'...

SALGUOD - Thanks. I did push CM on the Vehicle History and got the "it has a clean Carfax and AutoCheck, and that is what matters" line.
The tires are already on it, and I'll rotate as part of my PM like I always do.
If I don't feel comfortable with the way it drives or handles I'll just pick up two GY's and put 'em on.
Again, not my first choice, but new tires are better than bald tires.
I may try the "Find a dealer and run the VIN and have it for me a long with a hard copy of the Carfax / AutoCheck on Saturday morning or I am walking." approach.
I am not selling them my Soul. I am buying the car as far as they are concerned with CASH (well, a check from my Credit Union... I did my own financing and got 2.9%... drafted right out of my payroll before the money ever even hits my account).

LS - I agree, they prolly were not rotated regularly.
With right at 40K miles the rears are more worn than the tread depth guage indicates.
Yeah, I showed up to look at it and pulled a tread depth guage out of my pocket. I am "that guy".
CM sales slug looked at me kinda funny.

I ended up having the VIN run. I have buddy who was a GM tech for many years (18+) and now runs his own shop but still has access to GMVIS.

Showed a couple minor waranty issues, and that the sunroof recall/repair was performed but no water intrusion reported by the PO.
Showed that it still has the open campaign (did it ever become a full recall?) for the headlight harness.

Only thing that concerns me is the timing chain potential...

-cmc-

 

[salguod]

The headlight thing is pretty new, I think I got my letter last month. The official letter called it a 'campaign', but my OnStar report calls it a 'recall'. Semantics, the bottom line is that GM is going to replace your wiring and bulbs. Haven't taken mine in yet.

 

[khansen30]

KHANSEN - And smart ass posts from moderators are not going to make new members want to stay around.
Especially new members who have been around the block more than a few times.
Active members of multiple automotive forums for over ten years.
Oh, and I do know how to use Google too! I'm just sayin'...


-cmc-

Wow! I was not being a smart ass. I was just trying to point out that others on these Lambda forums will start taking jabs at you for not searching well enough, and posting the same comments in multiple posts, as that has happened to me when I first started on these sites a few years ago.

You need to take a chill pill, was just trying to help with your requests and where I found the info. Hope it helped, but at this point with your attitude, I don't really care. Good luck with your Outlook.

 

[cmcolfax]

SALGUOD - Cool. I am gonna make the appt with the dealer to do the headlight "recall that's not a recall" and use that as the opportunity to have them run a diagnstic on the car to make sure all of the software and firmare are up to date including the transmission flash that I have read a lot about.

(See... I do search...) :

On my F150 and my ZJ, if you d/c the battery it clears the "temporary" codes but keeps the "critical" ones then the computer will re-throw a code for anything "new" it senses after the battery is re-connected. I assume these are similar... If so, I'll prolly d/c the battery as soon as I get it home, and then drive it for a week or so before taking to the $tealership.

Not getting much help from CM... a little disappointed in that... first time I have bought from them... not impressed... the "No-Haggle Price" bit gets a little old when it is the answer for everything.
Example: When I pulled out the tread depth gauge and explained that if I was not happy with the tires we were going to have a conversation about CM replacing them the answer I got was "There is no conversation to be had. If they do not meet CM's standard of 2x state minimum tread (here in VA that would be 4/32") CM will replace them. If not, no. There is no negotiation.".

That reminds me... I gotta e-mail my sales slug about a coupla things...

-cmc-

 

[cmcolfax]

Wow! I was not being a smart ass. I was just trying to point out that others on these Lambda forums will start taking jabs at you for not searching well enough, and posting the same comments in multiple posts, as that has happened to me when I first started on these sites a few years ago.

You need to take a chill pill, was just trying to help with your requests and where I found the info. Hope it helped, but at this point with your attitude, I don't really care. Good luck with your Outlook.

Oh, and no where in either of the links you posted was there a list of paint or interior color codes and their respective names.

Now I will grant you this, even if there was, I did not make a note of the codes from the door placard on the vehicle when I looked at it.

SO, if you had posted a useful link, I still would not have been able to find the information I want.

Thanks for the help.

 

[cmcolfax]

Email I sent to sales slug...

Just touching base… we are picking up the check from the Credit Union at 0830 tomorrow so we will be at the dealership by 0900-0930.

I have a couple of things I would like done before we pick up the Outlook though.

1. Please have the service department look in to the plug in the right rear tire. I understand that it passed VA State Inspection, but I am not entirely comfortable with it. As I mentioned, this vehicle will primarily be used by my pregnant wife to haul herself and our two kids around. I do not want to worry that a tire will fail on her as a result of being plugged instead of replaced.
2. Please print me a hard copy of the complete Carfax / AutoCheck report on the vehicle for my records to be included with the purchase paperwork.
3. Please discuss with your service manager and make an attempt to coordinate with a GM dealership that you have a relationship with to run the VIN though the GMVIS and print a complete copy of it to be included with the purchase paperwork. I need this documentation in the event I have further warranty or unfulfilled recall and TSB issues.


Thanks.



-cmc-

His reply:

Chuck,

I can take care of the Auto Check report without a problem, and actually I had service look at the tire yesterday. They explained to me that they plugged it from the inside and there's no chance that the tire will go flat. He also assured me that it isn't a safety hazard in any way shape or form (We were on the same page, great minds think alike). I'm working on the third request as we speak. Honestly, that might be a little more complicated, but of course I'll try.

 

[ls973800]

I'm glad to see that you were able to run the VIN and everything looks pretty good.

Sounds like (if it's not just a sales pitch) they repaired the tire correctly by patching it from the inside.

When (if) you follow through with the purchase, open the glove box door. There you will find a label with most of the RPO codes which when deciphered will confirm what options and accessories you have on the vehicle. This link is for the Saturn Outlook RPO codes. You can Google any others you have that are not listed. I believe the codes for the outer color and the interior color is also contained within the RPO label.

http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/do...=2010&regionID=1&divisionID=10&vehicleID=8903

Timing chain is something you will just have to be aware of. Nothing you can do about it except maybe use good oil and change it every 5000 miles regardless of the oil life monitor (OLM). Just don't ever go all the way down to "0" on the monitor.

If it is OnStar equipped (look at the rearview mirror or read the RPO code), there was a promotion recently that you could call them and get a free 3 month subscription for trial use. Sign up for the monthly report, and they will send you updated info on the running condition, any recalls, and general vehicle health report. If you decide to continue with OnStar, there are several posts on these forums telling how to obtain the best price.

I would have the OBD read by Auto Zone or one of the other major auto parts stores that do it for free before disconnecting the battery to clear the memory. One owner purchased used, and within several days the light came on and he had major problems. It is believed the dealer may have disconnected the battery to clear the codes before placing it for sale. Just something to keep in mind. Sometimes reading it will tell of any pending codes, or if the vehicle has not been driven enough since the last resets for codes to be set.

Let us know how things go. One more question. Have you priced the G/Y tires yet that YOU might be paying for if you replace them?