[lokeusa]

ok i have a 2007 saturn outlook and only durring the winter does this happen.
i get a code actualy 2 codes saying running lean bank 1 and running lean bank 2.
i took it to the shop they had it over night and they did a smoke test to the vacume system.
nothing code was gone they left it in the shop overnight so i think becuase the vehicle was warm it went away.
again the temp has to be below 40 deg farenhight.
i changed the throttle body and mass air flow sensor but also to no resolve same codes.
i am now considering changing the fuel pump.
i am bitting at the bit becuase it seems to go away durring the summer.
i also notice durring the winter a prolonged cranking period.
where the engine strugles to start.
again i have had the vacume system tested for leaks and no prevail.
i am also noticing some sluggish behavior.
and to top that when this code pops up it turns the stabil track off.
definately related but the track only reports that it is off due to an engine issue.
any advise would help.

 

[h2oskierc]

I am having the same issue. I brought my 2008 to a dealer for diagnosis last week or the week before. They said that the valve cover gasket is bad, causing excess oil buildup in the intake duct between the air cleaner and the throttle body. This then freezes,and the car thinks it is running lean. The estimate they gave me was just under $1050. I am going to do it myself,parts are $200 shipped fromgmpartsdirect.com

The lean codes are what is causing the TC/Stabilitrak messages, the service manual says to ignore that, as well as any rough shifting or poor performance until the MIL is cleared.

FWIW, I don't think this is the actual fix,but I want the updated valve cover/gasket, so I am going to try. Will order parts on Friday,I hope...

 

[h2oskierc]

I can confirm this did not Fox it for me...

What troubleshooting have you done?

 

[electbc]

It seems that oil buildup is common in all these vehicles, replacing intake gasket may not correct problem. Has this been done and did it correct problem?
I had my mechanic trace it down to dirty Mass Air Flow Sensor, probably due to the oil. Replaced it and all is good. It lasted 14 months 30,000 miles I had to replaced it again. $70 at advance auto parts.

 

[h2oskierc]

In the process of changing out the valve covers, the intake gaskets are changed. It did not fix the problem. I picked up the MAP sensor today (A/C Delco one from local stealer for ~$46) and will put that in tomorrow. If that doesn't do it, MAF sensor is next. Figured I would start with the more inexpensive one, as they both check out OK according to the diagnostics on AllData.

 

[h2oskierc]

Well, wasn't the MAP sensor in my case. Changed the MAF sensor, and so far that seems to have done it. Fingers crossed.

 

[electbc]

Same symptoms again. last week the throttle body acted up with a 1516 code. Took it off and cleaned it, got the gook out of the intake and went upstate NY on Thursday. -15 degrees no problem. On the way back at 20 degrees a lean bank 1 and bank 2 code. Cleared the codes and the next day at 15 degrees I got the Traction control off and service stabilitrack messages. Took off the air intake and cleaned all the gook out, Again, replaced the MAF sensor, cleared the codes and test drove it around town. I am going to look into a catch can to collect the sludge and moisture. The MAF sensor had moisture on it. I may also insulate the flexible snorkel. Hey GM Customer service. What is causing this problem and how can we fix it?

**** moisture!

 

[electbc]

Drove 240 miles in single digit temperatures and so far no codes. I guess I will have to keep a new MAF sensor in the truck.

 

[electbc]

I also messaged GM Customer service and asked them to let us Lambda owners what causes this condition and what we can do to correct it.

 

[rbarrios]

how often do you clean the goop from the factory catch can?

 

[electbc]

I don't do it often enough, but the oil eventually gets sucked into the throttle body and gets burned off. You can tell how much you loose by the amount of oil you need to replace when checking the dipstick. I lost a quart in the last few weeks, I also did several 100 plus trips during this period. I don't think that I am burning it through the piston rings. I did a lot of highway driving upstate NY in super cold temps. I had several codes as well. I had a 1516 code, throttle body position, reduced engine power and shuttering. A few minutes on the side of the road with engine off may have defrosted it since I made it 70 miles further with no incident.
The next day, I found it was dirty as well as plenty of moisture in the air intake snorkel with the oil. I figured it froze on the throttle. No problems since.
A week later, I got the old Traction Control off. Service Traction Control. Service Stabilitrack.. I had bought another new MASS Air flow sensor so I threw it in.
Then it got warm and rained again and then cold. Guess what, it had some moisture in there again. You can't say it was there because it never warmed up to be burned off, because it was all highway miles. Maybe I need some around town miles to burn off the moisture.
I Drove upstate again no problem. The next day, I got the Service stabiltrack, Traction control off and Service Traction Control. It wouldn't be so bad if it just came on and I could silence it once but the annoying thing is that it comes on and off several times during the drive. I got the oil out again and some more moisture. I dried off the Mass Air Flow sensor with a hair drier and canned air. So far it has been a couple of days driving to work with no more messages. Well the good thing is that it never left me stranded (except when I had it towed for the 3-5-R waveplate issue) Even then after it came off the tow truck, it drove nice for a week until I took it to have it rebuilt.

 

[electbc]

I just ordered another new MASS air flow sensor to keep in the truck. You can order just the sensor cartridge and not have to disassemble the air intake. This is getting easier by the minute, now if we can figure out how to keep them from getting contaminated in the first place. Waiting on GM Customers answer.

 

[electbc]

I drove 230 miles in temperatures between 20 and minus 5 this morning with no incident. When I left the ski area at the end of the day, I didn't make it out of the parking lot and I got the traction control disabled, service stabillitrack,service traction control. When I pulled over to correct situation, I opened up the air intake snorkel and at least 2 tablespoons of water came out. I dried it and cleaned MASS air flow sensor , dried it and drove home without incident. When I got home I inspected it again and got at least 2 more tablespoons of water.

 

[electbc]

Hello GM Customer service.
I have been posting about, and I PMed you, regarding the oil in the air intake. It seems that there is also a lot of condensed water in there as well. I have removed the Snorkel at least 7 times to clean it out in the past month with this cold weather, and all the faults I have been getting. I have also replaced the MASS Air Flow Sensor and I have another one on order as a spare. I am awaiting a suggestion from GM on what can be done to remedy this situation.
Thank You
Bruce

 

[electbc]

Interesting setup here. http://www.acadiaforum.net/forum/index.php?topic=8789.0

GM Customer service. Can you get together with the AcadiaForum, EnclaveForum and TraverseForum customer service people and the engineers and come up with a fix for us please.

 

[tsc1969]

Bruce,
Don't hold your breath for a resolution to this via GM Customer Service. The only response you will get(if you get one at all) is to take it to your local dealer and let them look at it.
Tim C.

Hello GM Customer service.
I have been posting about, and I PMed you, regarding the oil in the air intake. It seems that there is also a lot of condensed water in there as well. I have removed the Snorkel at least 7 times to clean it out in the past month with this cold weather, and all the faults I have been getting. I have also replaced the MASS Air Flow Sensor and I have another one on order as a spare. I am awaiting a suggestion from GM on what can be done to remedy this situation.
Thank You
Bruce

 

[electbc]

Is that all they are here for, creating business for the dealer network? Look at all the posts where the dealers did so much work,charged thousands of dollars and the problems didn't get resolved. I do have faith that GM Customer service will live up to expectations and do some research. I do hope that the new GM will learn from the mistakes of the old GM and actually satisfy customers in order to retain us as loyal customers.

 

[h2oskierc]

Re:

Dealer will tell you to replace the valve covers, as the pcv porting was changed somehow. My dealer quoted just under $1100. I did it myself for $250 and about 14 hours of time. Not a job for the faint of heart, and you will want to change the intake manifold gasket as well...

It MAY have had a small effect on the amount of oil in the intake tube. How confident are you that the MAF sensor is getting fouled up by oil in the tube? Keep in mind, the MAF sensor is ahead of the catch area in the tube. How bad is your air filter?

 

[electbc]

I had the throttle body freeze up on New Years Eve. I changed the air filter and cleaned the Throttle body New Years day. Since then I have had to clean the snorkel 3 or 4 times and I removed several Tablespoons of water as well. I had to replace the Mass Air Flow sensor, the hot plate was distorted, I guess from the moisture. I had the service stabillitrack , traction control trio this week, I cleaned it and drove 230 miles. When I got home I opened it up and removed another 2 Tablespoons of water. This was in temperatures in the teens. I just installed a Kobalt 3/8-in Air Filter in the PCV line today.
Even in the warmer weather I had a couple of Mass Air Flow sensors fail, My mecanic diagonosed it to that and tried to clean it but it needed replacement. I clean it when there is moisture in there and, I dry it with a hair dryer or canned air.

 

[h2oskierc]

Re:

Do you take short trips where the car doesn't warm up? Where are you removing tablespoons of water from? If it's the intake duct, there has to be something else going on.