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2009 outlook xr 27k miles.
followed recall, OLM changed per recall notice and switched to synthetic oil.
engine check light this week, brought to dealer.
diagnosis exhaust valve timing sensor alert.
sounds like stretched timing chain to me as there are three timing chains in this engine.
engine removed and work in progress by dealer. Thank God for 100000 mile drivetrain warranty !
Imagine the cost of job on front wheel drive vehicle !
 

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RonD said:
2009 outlook xr 27k miles.
Thank God for 100000 mile drivetrain warranty !
the 2009's have timing chain warranty extended to 10 yr/120,000
 

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rbarrios said:
the 2009's have timing chain warranty extended to 10 yr/120,000
sounds like the right thing to do and they needed to.
Been reading all the posts re this problem.
Sounds to me like poor timing chain design or metal fatigue, I doubt very much that the more frequent oil changes will delay the problem vey long !
(most state that even with shorter oil change interval the problem comes around 25 to 35K miles.)
 

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RonD,

Can appreciate your apprehension/concern on these LAMBDA's. Haven't posted here in a quite awhile. Life is getting in the way, LOL!

I'm knocking on wood. Bought my '09 new. Have just under 65K miles on her. No issues on any internals to the motor or trans. Have the 288 horsepower version. All recalls done including reflashing the ECM to include the oil life monitor (did this at 22,853 miles). Been using Pennzoil Platinum (did oil analysis to support switching from Mobil 1). These direct injection motors beat up the oil (do a search here on that). I change oil more on the traditional 3K to 4K mile intervals (OLM usually reads 40%). I have been proactive on the transmission (have had the tranny drained twice to date. I have the factory trailer package (5,200 lb capacity) and do tow an open car hauler at least 2 times a year (300 + miles a trip). Did have under factory warranty the complete power steering rack replaced @ 49,750 miles. Do have letters from GM extending the timing chain & seat side impact air bag (possible corrosion between body main wiring harness & front driver /passenger side impact air bag connection), 10 Years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first.

This truly is a great family vehicle. I have the 8 passenger version (2nd row bench). Just an ideal vehicle to package people & stuff. Very well appointed with creature comforts. Call me a satisfied LAMBDA owner that has his ear to the ground...maintaining her religiously.

My experience/.02 cents.

Jim
In God We Trust!
 

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COCOATAN09XR;
Thank you for your assurances !
I admit I am weighing my options with this problem.
First vehicle with less than 5.7L engine.
Purchased new in 2009.
Same model as yours except 7 passenger configuration.
My wife and I have been very impressed with the performance, handling and comforts along with the great gas mileage !
Noted you have 62K miles with no problem, we are less than half that and have followed all the recommendations as well as using synthetic oil at the same oil change interval as the fossil oil. could this be a bad lot of timing chains ? Do the 2010 and newer GM versions of this car have the problem ?
We have the full OEM towing package as well, including prodigy P2 brake controller (Dealer threw controller into deal at my request).
We have never yet towed with this vehicle.
Owners manual is in car at dealer. The sales brochure I have lists towing capacity at 4500 pounds, will check owners manual when car comes home.
We bought the car for its size, weight and ability to be towed by a motorhome without modification other than base plate and hitch.
We are considering a small travel trailer at this time (my son's motorhome eats gas to an intolerable level without towing the Saturn).
Now I am wondering if the stress of towing will exacerbate the timing chain problems !
 

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Hi Ron,

Think GM upped the towing capacity in a running engineering change in September, 2008. Check your door for the date of manufacturer on your vehicle. Also, there should be a sticker (might be gone by now) on the right side of the yoke behind the removable modesty panel low in the center of your bumper. GM also stamped into the metal on that yoke the towing capacity on that same side. A flash light and a wire brush is your friend. I consistently would get 15 1/2 mpg @ 60 mph towing approximately 4,800 lbs + 2 adults and luggage. Regarding the sales brochure, GM never reprinted/upgraded their brochures on the towing specs when this change was made.

Think the 10's (last year for Saturns...approximately 3,500 of them) were more less prone to this timing chain issue. Think it had to do with an engineering change/possible vendor change too. Going forward (2011 and newer) on all the LAMBDAs, think this issue is a non issue.

What you should do is just drive her within the specs it was designed for. In other words, happy towing! When you do, use the tow haul button. It will keep the tranny out of 6th gear so she's not lugging under load. As soon as you hook up your trailer (I would get an equalizing hitch so your vehicle will remain level) and plug into your factory electrical plug, you will automatically see your lane changing turn signals go from 3 blinks to 6 blinks 'cause now you're a "train". Good for GM to do that.

Regards,

Jim
In God We Trust!
 

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Taking a 65 vette to car shows on an open trailer ?

Thank you for the assurances.
After checking resale values, and from what you told me I think I will keep the outlook and cross my fingers.
The MPG you quote towing is better than my 2000 el dorado gets !
I plan on staying under 4000 pounds (now maybe push out to 4500) if the labels you told me about check out.
Gave up collector car scene years ago ! Now old and practical :p

Thanks again
Ron
 

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Ron,

DRIVE to car shows. Trailer her to the drag strip... :) My best with a lot of tire spin (radial tires all around) is 13.4's @ 104+mph. Did drive the '5 on Route 66 last year. Covered 5,800 miles in 21 days. Burned 1 quart of oil. Great trip!

On the steering rack, I started to get some noise in the steering column and had the dealer check it out. They confirmed that the steering rack had started to leak (never noticed any oil on the garage floor) and said this was a warranted item. You would be wise before your 5 years are up, to look over your Outlook to make sure your power steering & water pump are not leaking. If you have a rapport with your dealer (probably a Chevy Dealer), take advantage of one of their promos on an oil change and when you taken it in ask the service rep if they would do a more detailed check of these 2 systems. Worth the peace of mind.

Think you are in good shape with your low mile Saturn. All the best to your motoring future!

Regards,

Jim
In God We Trust!
 

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My Cocoa Brown just turned 62k miles...

Still on original cam chains... steady diet of PU 5W30 & AC Delco UPF44 Filter every 5k miles.

Speaking of steering racks... On my third. The 2nd one got installed with Dexron VI, bigger inlet hose, and new PS pump. This third one was replaced due to leaking out the end cap (bellows was wetted).

Now just waiting to see if my 3-5-R waveplate implodes... judging by unofficial tallies, my 11/08 manufacturing date is not late enough to be outside the range. I have MajorGuard (GMPP) until Feb 2016 or 85k miles.
 

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COCOATAN09XR ;
I think those are pretty good times on radials, I would love to do rte 66 in such a ride !
Gave up the American muscle for TR3, MGA, MGB and AH3000 in early sixties.
Gave up sports cars in late seventies (family, you know).
Been mostly 4 door sedans and suv since then.

Got the outlook back today !
There is no way my wife will let go of this car, She absolutely loves it !
Can't tell if it is poor memory or if the car never ran this good from the day I bought it.
Seems to be quicker from standing stop and have more power than ever, and I was impressed with what the 6 cylinder gave me before the fix.
It was built dec 8, 2008 and I took delivery May 2009.
The dealer (yes chevy) was surprised at the problem appearing at all, never mind so soon as I have been very particular with maintenance and using synthetic oil.
They put in 3 timing chains and exhaust cam actuator.

You are correct towing is listed on the hitch label as 5200 pounds (first time I have looked at the receiver or removed the cover plate).

XRDreamliner;.
Does the leakage show up as a sweat or actual leak ?
I have not noticed any looseness or vibrations from the steering, I would describe it as tight and very responsive ( we love the turning radius on this car).
I will take the advice given to get a thorough check of these systems just before the 5 year warranty runs out.

I thank you both for the advice and assurances.
Ron
 

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RonD said:
XRDreamliner;.
Does the leakage show up as a sweat or actual leak ?
I have not noticed any looseness or vibrations from the steering, I would describe it as tight and very responsive ( we love the turning radius on this car).
I will take the advice given to get a thorough check of these systems just before the 5 year warranty runs out.

I thank you both for the advice and assurances.
Ron
I would characterize the end cap leakage from the steering rack as a weep. The leak did not generate enough to wet the garage floor, but it weeped enough fluid to wet the inside of the bellows, which then eventually made its way to the external surface of the bellows.

BTW, my wife and I share your wife's enthusiasm... my 09 Outlook XR AWD has every option, including the Touring Package, which includes the dual exhaust tips and the 20" wheels... very easy to do long trips in comfort and without fatigue.
 

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A little off topic here...some pics of my '65 as we were towing her back from Seiverville, TN a little over a year ago. A wet ride back to boot!

Enjoy!

Jim
In God We Trust!







Last but not least, here's a shot of both high and dry...2 years ago:

 

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SenordrummeR2,

Hi! Yup, that's my standard 2 1/2 car garage. I did have to carve out the ceiling to truly allow that lift to raise my '5 up in the air. I can actually park 3 vehicles in this garage. My lift is made by Superior, built here in the states but I understand is no longer owned and made here. I bought this lift back in 2001 and paid $3,200 delivered. Came with 3 drip trays, roll around oil cannister, a set of heavy duty wheels enabling you to move it around in your garage, a jack bridge, a transmission jack and aluminum ramps. The unit is rated to safely lift 7,000 lbs. I've had zero issues with this unit. Very well made. Believe Bendpack (google search this) is what most folks today are buying. A quality piece. Pricing has dropped. When you shop for one, be sure to ask for aluminum ramps (typically each weigh only 14 lbs. vs. the stock steel ramps at nearly 50 lbs. apiece). Your back will thank you. Shoot for a package price and get all of what I mentioned above with the unit.

Good luck!

Regards,

Jim
In God We Trust!
 

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Got to post back up here on a warranty item that I had to replace today. Yup, I must've jinks'd myself touting my good luck with my '09 Saturn. Notice some drips on the garage floor yesterday and they were pink. Got on my hands and knees and noticed the lower A-frame on the pass side was wet with this pink fluid. Yup, it was DEXCOOL and the 10 year, 120,000 mile warranty extended by GM for water pumps just came into play. So, this morning I tripped over to my friendly Chevy Dealer and they arranged for a rental car for me as well. All this was on GM's dime. As it turned out they were able to complete the job this afternoon. So my Outlook is nice and dry again in my garage. Kudoos to GM for stepping up on this.

This special policy for water pumps is #13091. They replaced with a Pump Kit GM #12657499 and topped off the coolant with GM #12346290 (DEXCOOL). My vehicle had just under 65,000 miles on her when this failed.

I will be posting this in the Water Pump thread as well.

Regards,

Jim
In God We Trust!
 

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A little off topic, but that corvette is a beauty to behold !
Like the garage too!

Got the Saturn back, timing chain kit (replaces all three) and new exhaust valve actuator.
The dealer (yes chevy) was quite surprised I had the problem so early considering I was being carefull to change the oil sooner than required and with synthetic.
He told me (after some interrogation regarding metals used in the timing chain and engineering) that the problems root cause is actually the hydraulic chain tensioners getting gummed up causing the timing chain to be loose and then stretch. Makes sense to me.

So....
To recap, I am watching for water pump leak, steering rack leak, oil life or more like premature oil failure....
Was this car designed by British Leyland ???
Did I miss anything ?
 

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2008 Outlook timing chains???
This may have been covered in previous posts, I apologize if so. Does anyone know why the 2008 is excluded from the extended warranty coverage? It seems to me that it should, same engine, same problems.

Thanks,

Jim
 

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I have looked high and low to find the following information. Has anyone who had the timing chain replaced had the problem happen again? Had my timing chain replaced around 50k miles and now at 111K I am getting the following codes.

P0202
P0204
P0206
P0017
P0036
P0102
P0449

If I recall that's the same bunch of codes I pulled the last time the chain was replaced. Anyone have any insight to offer as to the same issue happening twice?
 

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no1pony said:
I have looked high and low to find the following information. Has anyone who had the timing chain replaced had the problem happen again? Had my timing chain replaced around 50k miles and now at 111K I am getting the following codes.

P0202
P0204
P0206
P0017
P0036
P0102
P0449
If I recall that's the same bunch of codes I pulled the last time the chain was replaced. Anyone have any insight to offer as to the same issue happening twice?

Following up on my own post here. Spent some time last night under the hood. Initially the car ran terribly, only running on cyl 1,3,5. I pulled the fuse for even coils with no change. I cleaned the ground that is attached to the engine coming off that harness. Still no change. I started looking for damaged wires and couldn't find anything. on a whim I started the vehicle and pulled the odd number coils just by chance i tugged on the wire loom entering the fuse box from the engine side, instantly I ran better. I figured a loose or damaged wire but what it actually turned out to be was the bolt coming down from the top of the fuse panel to secure the clip had worked loose and the clip holding the wires underneath was barely making contact. Tightened that up and cleared the codes.

I also replaced the Map sensor because I had picked one up. The car did produce the P0449 code right away. after a few moments P0017 and P0014 then they both cleared themselves within minutes. The car is running perfectly minus the P0449. I ordered the part that sits on top the gas tank to fix that.

I am somewhat confused as to why the P0014 and 0017 came and went so quickly and would not be surprised at all if they came back. The service traction and Stabilitrak light are also no longer showing up. I guess I am just skeptical that all of that was fixed so easily.
 
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