[bigblumer]

Hello fellow Lambda owners.

This weekend we got the dreaded Service Traction Control/Service Stabilitrak warning message and lights on the DIC of our 08 Outlook XR AWD. There is now a whine coming from either the transmission or transfer case, and the car drives like its stuck in low gear, even though it shifts normally. When I take my food off the gas, it engine breaks. We have an appointment with our local GM dealer on Tuesday (first available appointment), to get it looked at. Until then its sleeping in the garage.

I've been reading some of the problems and solutions, and the amount of effort it takes to get to those solutions on various Lambda forums, and I've got to say, I'm a little nervous to say the least. Some of the "solutions" have ranged from changing the oil, to replacing the cylinder heads and timing chain. hno:

Because it seems that it can take multiple visits to the dealer to resolve this issue, I am going to post all of my issues, actions, and solutions here in this thread.

A little more about the vehicle:
Its an 08 Outlook XR AWD with 63100 miles on it. We purchased it used from a non-GM dealer in August, and currently put on about 1000mi a month.
It gets driven about 2.5 miles a day during the week day, and its our primary driver on the weekend. Typical weekend sees about 200 miles, or so.
Because its such a short-distance driver during the work week, I try to take it out on the weekend to burn off the condensation in the engine oil.
Because it doesn't really get warm during the week, I've been using Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30, which I changed about a month ago. It is garaged, and we have had a really mild winter so far, here in the great white north. Its been in the 40's, which is rare for January.
When this problem started, I saw on some of the threads that some people had low fluid levels somewhere in the system. Oil looks good, as did the transmission and power steering fluid. Break fluid wasn't quite up to the MAX line, so I added some, but it took less than 2 tablespoons of fluid. New breaks and rotors were installed by the dealer we got it from, as well as new tires.

Other thank the Stabilitrak issue, we have been very pleased with the car. It rides well, and we really like the features.

I will update when we hear back from the dealer.

-paul

 

[6Sixathome]

Paul, welcome and do keep us posted on what the dealer findes out.

 

[bigblumer]

So, I just got off the phone with the mechanic. The outlook is giving him two codes. Both are related to the MAP sensor. Apparently, if there is any fault in the Engine, Emissions, Transmission or Breaks the Stabilitrak system is turned off, and that's the warning we see on the DIC. Service Stabilitrak warning could be caused by a thousand different things. They looked for leaks in the vacuum system, and found none. He suggests replacing the MAP sensor, which is not covered as part of the 100k warranty. The part is 82.00, and it only takes a few minutes to install, so the labor would be minimal.

I have not agreed to the service yet. The part is half-price at RockAuto.com for a Delco part, and I can do it myself for free. But on the other hand, if its not the cause, the car will still be at the shop for them to continue the diagnosis. I'm torn.

Also, it seems I have a small leak in my rack and pinion. He did not suggest replacing it at this time. The area where the steering column joins the unit is "wet", but I have not noticed any leaks in either the fluid level or on the garage floor. When I checked the fluid this weekend, it was still at the Full line. Since its not covered under warranty either, he suggested waiting to see how bad it is.

Thoughts?

-paul

 

[6Sixathome]

What exactly are the code numbers?

 

[rbarrios]

see if the codes you have are some of these..

On some 2007-2010 OUTLOOK; 2007-2011 Acadia; 2008-2011
Enclave, CTS/CTS-V; 2009-2011 Traverse;the
following DTCs or Symptom codes may be set: C0035, C0040,
C0045, C0050, with symptom bytes 18, 5A, 0F. The ABS, Service
Traction Control System, and/or Service StabiliTrak lights also
may be illuminated.
This condition may be
caused by single or multiple
pieces of ferrous
metallic debris stuck to
the wheel speed sensor
magnetic encoder ring.
Instead of a traditional
mechanical-type tooth
tone wheel, some new
model vehicles use a
wheel speed sensor tone
wheel made of a magnetized
nitrile rubber ring,
typically brown in color.
This magnetic encoder
ring is now part of the inboard
bearing hub assembly
The magnetic encoder consists of multiple North and South pole
pairs surrounding the outer circumference. When the magnetic
encoder ring rotates and passes by the wheel speed sensor head,
it generates a sine wave in the wheel speed sensor. The wheel
speed sensor converts an analog signal to a digital square wave,
and typical digital signal values switch between 7mA (Low) and
14mA (High) DC current.
Encoder Ring
Cleaning
Inspect and clean any
debris from the encoder
ring using the following
procedure. This inspection
and cleaning procedure is
supporting information to
with symptom bytes 18, 5A, 0F can be repaired by removing or
cleaning any accumulated debris on the magnetic encoder ring,
located on the inboard side of the bearing hub.
TIP: Most repairs can be
performed without replacement
of the bearing hub assembly or
wheel speed sensor. Be careful
not to damage the bearing outer
seal when brushing or cleaning
the magnetic encoder debris.
Do not use any type of magnetic
tool to remove the debris from
the bearing magnetic encoder.
An external magnet can damage
the encoder.
1. Based on the specific EBCM
Wheel Speed Sensor DTC
code, inspect the appropriate
corner magnetic encoder ring
for possible debris.
• C0035 Left Front Corner
• C0040 Right Front Corner
• C0045 Left Rear Corner
• C0050 Right Rear Corner
2. If debris is found, gently use a
dry nylon soft bristle brush to
remove the foreign debris from
the magnetic encoder ring. If
debris was removed, proceed
to step 3.
If debris still remains, wash the
encoder ring using a mild soap
detergent and wipe dry.
3. Connect a scan tool to the
vehicle. Turn on the ignition.
Clear the DTCs.
4. Perform vehicle diagnostic
repair verification procedure for DTC C0035-C0050. Refer to the
appropriate Service Information.
the SI wheel speed sensor
diagnostic mechanical
fault table. In most cases
the DTCs C0035-C0050

 

[bigblumer]

The code was P0106 MAP/Barometric Pressure Circuit Range/Performance Problem. The dealer said it was most likely the sensor since they said everything else looked good. Hoses and seals were in good condition Since it wasn't covered by warranty I did the repair myself. I found the part on RockAuto.com for 41.00, which is half of the dealer cost so I ordered it. It arrived today, and was easy to replace. I took it to Oriley down the street and cleared the code. I drove it around for about 30 miles on a mix of city and highway and have received no codes so far.

So hopefully that takes care of my Stabilitrak issue. I wish the DIC was a little more informative when it came to engine errors. I can see why the ECM turns off the traction control system when an emissions sensor fails. But Service Engine Soon / Service Emissions System sounds just as scary to me as Service Traction Control.

On a semi-related note, the car has 63,000 miles on it, and it looked like it had the original air filter in it, so I ordered a Wix when I ordered the sensor. When I took off the air box, I removed the tube that goes from the airbox to the throttle body. To my surprise, there was quite a bit of oil in it. Its coming from the valve cover through the breather tube and into the intake. The throttle body was relatively clean. Do you think that this could be caused by the 1.5 mile short runs to work and back, and it was this that contributed to the early death of the MAP sensor?

Thanks
-paul

 

[rbarrios]

oil in the tube is normal.
Some say it shouldnt be- but theres a reason theres that little catch can there.
I clean mine out on my 2010 every 10-15000.
Or whenever im under the hood looking at stuff.

If you look on the acadia forum- I have a HOW TO clean the throttle body with pic of a little oil.

 

[diane]

I also have this problem going on with my 2007 Saturn it says Traction Control off and Service Stabilitrak the dealer said it has to do
with the bulletin that said we need to re set our MAP sensor unfortunitly for me saturn will not cover the cost to fix the problem that the sensor caused because it was not a recall and I'm over the $100,000 mile mark the MAP sensor put to much pressure on the timing chains and stretched them now they have to be replaced for only a small costs of $2,800. Any suggestions?

Thanks Diane

 

[GM Customer Service]

Paul,

I am glad to see that you are working with the dealer to resolve your concern. Please keep me posted and contact me for any further assistance. Thank you.

Tricia, GM Customer Service.

 

[vwtodd]

***UPDATE*** - no longer solved. The lights have started coming back on, sometimes every couple of days, sometimes a couple of times per day. Dealer said there is nothing they can do unless I drive in with the lights on so they can scan. Since I am 1 hour from the dealer, this is not likely to happen anytime soon, since it is a totally random event. Can OnStar diagnose and tell you the actual codes?


**SOLVED**, at least in my case. Service stabilitrack/traction control/ABS lights had been appearing on and off over the last week. Per RBARRIOS post above about dirt on the encoder rings, I took my Outlook down to a DIY car wash, got under the car and sprayed all four bearing housing areas around the encoder with the soap/water setting, then plain water from about 10 inches away. Car has gone over 50 miles with no lights (used to go 2 or less).

I know this is not the answer in every case, but if you live in a snowbelt/salt area, try this first. Just make sure it is not super cold out so that the water does not freeze on the encoder area on contact.

 

[GM Customer Service]

@diane, I Have read about your situation with your 2007 Saturn Outlook. How many miles over the 100,000 miles warranty are you? I am curious about this as I would like to do some research about this for you.

Michelle, GM Customer Service

 

[diane]

@diane, I Have read about your situation with your 2007 Saturn Outlook. How many miles over the 100,000 miles warranty are you? I am curious about this as I would like to do some research about this for you.


Michelle, GM Customer Service]

114800 Over Saturn said they will not do anything about it since the I did not bring it in when the memo came out unfortunitly we were renting out our house at that time and lived in Alex so I did not get it until a notice came out in Dec. I did find someone who can do it for
around $1300 but it still makes me mad because there has been three recals already.

Diane